Patty Vest: Welcome to Sagecast, the podcast of Pomona College. I'm Patty Vest. Mark Wood: And I'm Mark Wood. This season on Sagecast we're discussing mentoring stories with Pomona students, professors, coaches and staff who work closely together in the classroom, in the lab and in the field. Patty Vest: Today we're talking with theater major Anais Gonzalez Nyberg, class of '20 and Gio Ortega assistant professor of theater and dance. Mark Wood: Welcome Anais and Gio. Anais: Thanks for having us. Giovanni Ortega: Thanks for having us. Mark Wood: It's good to have you with us. Let's start with what brought you both together, theater. What drew each of you to the stage? Let's start with you Anais. Anais: What drew me to the stage? Kind of the liberal arts education I would say. I took an acting class to satisfy one of my requirements my first semester, my first year with Meaghan Prahl who's a friend of Gio's. And I remember I finished the class, loved it and was like, "Well, this was fun." Time to go back to politics and everything I thought I'd be doing in college. And she's like, "Well, no there's this directing class in the spring. I think you'd like it. I'm friends with the professor." And I was like, "I don't know if I have time for this. I like it but it'd be a distraction. I have to get back to real life." [inaudible 00:01:14]. And- Giovanni Ortega: Real life. Yeah. Anais: She's like, "Just meet with him." So I remember I was like, "Dear Professor Ortega, Meaghan has told me all about your class. Blah, blah, blah." He's like, "Let's just meet." I remember on day one he's like, "I'm Gio. Join my class. Like you're in. Please take it." I was like, "Okay." So I took his intro to directing class. And I was one of the only first years. There was a few first years in it but it was mostly upperclassmen. We kind of clicked there. I never felt more happy as a person, more emotionally and intellectually satisfied than when I was in that class with those people. It felt like this was just a perfect fit. And then Gio just made sure I stuck around after. [inaudible 00:01:59] sophomore year, he's like, "Come by my office. Let's have a talk." And he was like, "So Cabaret the musical, assistant director. I want you." I was like, "I'm not majoring." He's like, "We can talk about this. Double majors?" So he lured me in and I just kept coming back and then I didn't leave. That's really it. Giovanni Ortega: And now I'm gone for the year. Patty Vest: We can talk about that. Anais: [crosstalk 00:02:26]. Mark Wood: It's the ultimate bait and switch. Giovanni Ortega: Right. Very good. Mark Wood: So the same for you Gio. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Wait didn't we meet at an open house though? I thought like there was a lot of people there and then you came up to me. Anais: Yes. Because I had sent you that email. I was like, "Hey, Meaghan says I should take your class." Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Anais: But since I technically hadn't taken intermediate acting, I wasn't qualified to take your class yet. Giovanni Ortega: Right, right. Anais: So you were like, "Hey, meet me at this open house, the spring open house." Giovanni Ortega: In the spring. Yeah, yeah. That's perfect. Anais: And then I said, "Sure." I was like handshake, "Hi, professor Ortega." And you were like, "I'm Gio. Everyone called me Theater Gio." It was so formal. So nice to meet you. Giovanni Ortega: [inaudible 00:03:07] got the eye roll. Mark Wood: Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: That eye roll. Yeah. Patty Vest: We got it on camera. Don't worry. Anais: No. I was [crosstalk 00:03:11]- Mark Wood: Yeah. I'm afraid our listeners can't see that. But you can imagine. Giovanni Ortega: That's so funny. Anais: It was so nice to meet you and you were just so [inaudible 00:03:24]. You're like, "No. We're all peers here. We're all friends here." Mark Wood: That's so funny. Anais: Yeah. So we met I guess at that open house technically. Giovanni Ortega: Right, right. And myself, how did I get into it? Patty Vest: Yeah. Mark Wood: Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: My mom's family was filled with performers. So my mom was a singer and my tia was a singer. A lot of aunts were singers. My uncles were writers. So I grew up in that world of the arts, performing arts, which was kind of the reason why my mother didn't want me to do it because she actually ... That's what she did to ensure that I was ... that I was fed. She was one of those overseas workers who left the ... who left the country while was six months old and said, "I need to make sure that you're fed and get schooling." So she gave me to my grandmother ... not gave, but I was raised by my abuelita. This was like the shared experience that we have that I was talking about. So I grew up with my grandmother. Giovanni Ortega: And then my mom eventually shared the hardships of being an artist. This is exactly why I don't want you to do it. I was like, "Well, it's in my DNA." So it took a very long time for her to get it, to understand. And I understand where she's coming from because it was a livelihood for her for over 20 years. Mark Wood: And a hard one. Giovanni Ortega: And a very hard one. Right. Because she was like, "If I don't perform, if I don't do this, my son's not going to get fed. My family's not going to get the support that I had." And this is the narrative that a lot of immigrant families have, not just performers, but sending money home is such a huge thing. It just so happened that my mom was a performer for that matter. But then when I moved ... I moved to Chicago when I was 12. And Anais is from Chicago. Anais: Yes. I am. Giovanni Ortega: So I moved to Chicago when I was 12 and that's when I found that the outlet for me was through the arts. Writing was one of them. My English was not as impeccable as it is now. No, I mean ... So my English was so bad I didn't even understand me. [inaudible 00:06:07] right? But [inaudible 00:06:11] don't laugh because I [inaudible 00:06:13]. It was so bad. I looked funny. I looked funny. And I thought I was like ... I am a hipster but then my ... but the eighth graders were like, "You look like a FOB. You look like you just got off the boat." So that was such a learning experience. So I spent the next few years through a similar process to shed my identity, which is funny because that is the main reason why I get to do the work now, sharing those narratives and those stories. Yeah. And it just kept on going. Giovanni Ortega: I went to UIC and my mom was like, "I can't pay for your school. I'm raising two kids. I'm working two jobs." And this is where my own mentorship came into fruition. I had Dr. Michael Anderson was like, "You can't afford school. Well, let's get you in a TA position. I could vie for a scholarship." I was like, "Oh my goodness. There's people who will believe in me." And I think that's one of the main reasons why now I get to believe in others. That's what I saw with this one, that moment I met her. Yeah. Patty Vest: Both of you have touched a little bit on it but can you tell us a little bit more about your working relationship. I think from what you just told us a little sheds light a little bit on ... Mentors believed in you and helped you. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Patty Vest: And you said you met at an open house or through ... because you wanted to take his class. How did that evolve into a mentor, mentee relationship? Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. How did that evolve? Anais: I just remember being so ... I mean throughout the entirety of the spring semester that first class that I took with him with directing, it was about putting voice and having a lot of agency over my own story, my own narrative or how I saw my identity. Really the acting class I took the first semester and then this directing class were the first opportunities I had to creatively try and identify but also take ownership of who I was as a Latina, as a daughter, as a Christian. I had recently been baptized before I had met you. And so I remember that you had us do our auto-dramas, which are these ... What are they? They're painful to do. Because it's so introspective and it's like you put yourself under the microscope and you write a story, like a 10 minute piece. And then as directors, we were supposed to also direct our piece, perform in them, write them and tell it in three stages. I remember that was the specificity you wanted, I guess, in three stages. Anais: I remember I ended my piece, which I started performing as my mother and my mother on the phone with my father about me being bullied in school and me being so ... I had just transferred schools. So I was like in grade school then. Anais: And then the second scene was ... I was on the diving block as an athlete. I was an athlete all throughout high school, swimmer and water polo player. And I pushed myself so hard, like three injuries, kept going, kept going, kept going. So I didn't have time to nurture my creative self because I was always pushing my ... my being a leader at the pool basically for three years there. Anais: So then I was talking ... I was on the diving block and I was pushing myself in. I'm about to fall off the diving block and I stumble into a ... I lost that race. I lost this moment. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm trying to get into college kind of monologue. Anais: And then I finished it off with I'm speaking to God. And then it was no longer a pool and a diving block but I was being submerged into water, a baptism. It was the strangest thing to do in front of people I didn't know, a new professor, classmates I didn't know, who were upperclassmen. And I never talked about my faith in such a liberal setting or with people who I knew didn't quite believe what I believed. Anais: I just remember feeling so embraced and feeling so courageous. I felt like I've never given myself that space before and that I was doing it there in the class. I remember I was crying at everyone else's stories when they were sharing. And it was this wonderful feeling of what is this power that we're all tapping into right now? How can I embrace that and harness that not only in this class but like in every step of my life? So I think the identity of director and wanting to tell people stories and embrace these different identities and build an overall vision, that's when that came from. And I didn't know that's what I was doing at that moment. And then I came back for my sophomore year and Gio called me to his office. He's like, "Hey, we're going to hang out." I was like, "Oh, Gio just wants to be friends with me. That's cool." And he's telling me- Giovanni Ortega: Yeah, yeah. Always. Anais: He says, "What about a double major?" Like, "I know you're passionate about politics. I know you're passionate about what you're doing in your other work. But don't discount theater, don't discount what you're finding here. This is not just a one off. This was fun. You can do this and I believe you can do this." I don't think if we didn't have that conversation I would have considered theater as a major. I didn't think I was necessarily talented in that way. And I thought you had to be very specifically talented and have a theater persona already going into college to want to do theater in college. It was the weirdest thing. Anais: I still remember going back to my dorm, going back to Harwood that afternoon after our conversation and calling my mom. I'm like, "I might do a theater double major?" And she goes, "Theater? Wait, do you mean like media studies like film?" I'm like, "No, like theater, like on stage performance." She's like, "Okay. I always knew you were outspoken and chatty." I'm the only daughter. I'm the only child, always been outspoken and creative but never in that way. She trusted me because I said, "Well, this professor offer me this assistant director position for the semester. And I might try it out." He said, "Try Cabaret. Join me on the project and then we'll talk." And Cabaret was the best thing I ever committed myself to at that point. It was the craziest project. Giovanni Ortega: [crosstalk 00:12:52]. Anais: How many performers did we have in that show? Giovanni Ortega: Six. It was only six shows. Anais: No. How many actors did we have in Cabaret? Giovanni Ortega: My goodness. Did we have 22? I think it was 22. Anais: It was huge. Giovanni Ortega: Costumes were like ... Mark Wood: Yeah that's huge. Anais: It was huge. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. It was a lot of students. Anais: Yeah. And I never felt more connected to my community or more alive than I felt when I was working with those students. Being able to affirm what they were putting out on stage and their different questions and ... What am I doing here? What is the purpose of this? Is this the right way? I'm like, "That's your way. Follow your way. We trust ... We picked you for this for a reason. Your way is our way as a team." I love that role, that compassionate, nurture, mentor ... I was becoming a baby Gio essentially. I was like forming ... Honestly. So I think ... I don't know. I've lost the question at this point. Anais: But honestly that is what it was. It was him being like ... giving me space to figure out who I was because he saw what I was ... who I could have been, who I was becoming. But I wasn't sure because I didn't ... I hadn't accepted that yet. I think our relationship was just him nudging me, giving me space to figure out, accept, take ownership of and having someone be that confident in me helped me with my own confidence and changed my life. I'm here now. I'm only a theater major, no double major. That flew out the window. Good job. Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: Something. Did you know that my auto-drama was very similar? Anais: Yes. You told me after and I was ... Giovanni Ortega: I did tell you that. Right. Anais: Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: I think that was one of the main reasons. My auto-drama was also faith based. At the end, I was like praying in front of all these other people who I've never met and it was just like this out-of-body experience. Anais: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Mark Wood: Yeah. Would you share ... would you talk to us about that ... that- Anais: Process. Mark Wood: ... that experience, the auto-drama. Why do you have that as part of your class? It sounds like an almost devastatingly eye-opening kind of experience- Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anais: Cathartic experience. Yeah. Mark Wood: ... to go through. Giovanni Ortega: It's cathartic. I could be triggering. That's why we have ... we really discuss it first. It's a process that Mel Shapiro another mentor created through ... based on Meisner if I'm not mistaken. It's a mixture of the methodology of Strasberg and Sanford Meisner. So through the years because it was ... When I did it, it was also the second week of school. Anais: You always do it really, really [crosstalk 00:15:44] in the semester. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. I have students do it really early because my experience from when I learned it was the first two to three weeks of school. Mark Wood: It sounds almost like a rite of passage [crosstalk 00:15:55]. Giovanni Ortega: It is. It is. It's this whole notion of being completely selfless in front of the people you know and showing your true self in order to convey a visceral reaction. It becomes a communal relationship with the audience. So this kind of process allows actors and directors to realize that this job is not to show off. Right? It's not about ego or self-centeredness but quite the opposite. The more selfless you are as a director or as an actor, the more impact it has with the audience. Although the audience doesn't know that. Right? Mark Wood: Right. Giovanni Ortega: The audience will never realize that, "Oh, this character you're playing, you were such a good actor." While in fact, you were probably channeling your abuelita who passed away 20 years ago. So I thought that was really important to incorporate in my study. It's a rite of passage. All the students go through it regardless if they're writers, directors or actors. I'll say this. Because Anais ... I saw what Anais did. Then through that auto-drama I realized that there's something special with her because of her ... of her faith. I know I was like ... Anais: We need to bring tissues. Giovanni Ortega: I know, I know. Mark Wood: This is the slightly embarrassing part of [crosstalk 00:17:30]. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah, yeah. Mark Wood: We run into this every time we do one of these. It's like the time when you start talking about each other ... And we want that. Giovanni Ortega: It's all good. Mark Wood: It's all good. Giovanni Ortega: We cry. We always cry with each other at this point. Anais: Yeah, we do. Giovanni Ortega: But no, no. I think what's really important it's like there is a certain sense in spaces where there's faith shaming and with Anais we didn't have that. And there's been a good consistent group of people that came before her, Aliyah Muhammad, Matthew O'Connor- Anais: Yes. Giovanni Ortega: ... right, there's [inaudible 00:18:09], who have been a part of this kind of lineage who are not afraid to speak about spirituality. That was really important in our relationship that we're able to pray about what our path is, so this whole idea of faith and fate, right? So it diffuses any anxieties we may have when we say, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's someone watching over me." It's what I planned out to do but at the end of the day you can go out and say, "Well, what is the plan?" Right? Anais: I still remember before Cabaret opened that ... I mean we had this huge cast and we were like trying to take care of everyone. I remember he pulled me to the side. Giovanni Ortega: It's Cabaret. It's about Nazi Germany, right? So ... Anais: I mean the tensions there. You're absorbing all the tension of the performers. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. So much. Anais: And all the emotions are running high. Mark Wood: Yeah. Anais: And you're trying to be the rock for everyone and Gio was very much showing me by example that's ... of the role of the director in that space. And then I remember he pulls me to the side and we link arms and we pray. I remember I was just like, "I never thought coming to Pomona I would ever pray with a professor." Giovanni Ortega: Right. Anais: To be seen in that way and to be just cared for. We have a huge cast. There were all these running ... People running amuck, everything's going up, the curtains about to go. And he's like, "Hey, moment." And we pray together. And same thing happened before Marisol when I performed. So my first role as a performer, especially on the main stage, was in Marisol which went up the spring of my sophomore ... the next semester. Anais: I still remember just texting him and being like, "I need prayer right now." I was terrified being one of ... being the main performer in that show and I never performed in that way. I was terrified to take the role. I remember Gio just consistently kept praying over me, "This story needs to be told. You can tell this story." Also just encouraging me of how that was a blessing to the community to tell that story because I was terrified to take the role. I remember you just always consistently were like, "This isn't about you. It's not about your ego. It's about what you are giving back by being the vessel, the person, the actor that helps tell the story." Anais: I think that generosity that he instills in all of us, that is why I was also able to become a major in the department because of the people, of the students I'm working with, incredibly compassionate, driven, very selfless. And I didn't expect that going ... You hear the clichés about theater all the time of ego running high. Everyone wants to be at the top tearing each other down. That's not what I observed as a first year and then going into my second year. We instill a very much in our department a culture of being gracious with each other and loving and this is a team effort. And I was like, "Okay, I want to be on this team." And eventually I want to help run this team. I feel like that's where I'm at now as a senior. But I think that's because of the example that you and the other professors give that we're able to have that culture here that is so loving, generous, everything that the arts should be and that the industry should be and unfortunately that's not always the case. Giovanni Ortega: Did you find that ... how was it ... Just so you know Anais was just an intern at the Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago. How was that experience? Anais: Life changing. I mean it was the affirmation of like I'm afraid that this wonderful community we have here in our school is only going to be here at Pomona, at the Claremont college in our school. I was afraid of ... Okay, if I'm going to go join the theater industry, am I going to ever find that selflessness, that shared vision, that pursuing a dream but never compromising who we are as people in pursuing the dream and pursuing that storytelling? And then Steppenwolf was that. Anais: And Steppenwolf was that but at home in Chicago, which I never was a part of the theater community in Chicago before I went to school. So it was like returning home and then rediscovering Chicago and rediscovering home and the theater community and what it does for Chicago as a whole, as a very segregated community. So I felt very seen. I was very surprised to be at a company with that ... I mean Steppenwolf is huge. And it was very humbling to be there. But I always felt seen and I always felt there was a lot of respect with what people were doing and how they were engaging with their work and with each other. It was a team. I was like, "Okay, this is what I've been experiencing, but now we're at the big table at the big leagues." So that was powerful and it reassured me of like, "No, you did not ..." I mean I'm constantly doubting myself. I'm like, "Should I have been a theater major? Is this really what I'm supposed to be doing? Did I just fall in love with this thing and then ..." Mark Wood: [crosstalk 00:23:06]. Giovanni Ortega: It's a little bit ... a little late. Anais: Yeah. So [crosstalk 00:23:09] everything. It was crazy, yeah, being there for three months. Mark Wood: It sounds amazing. Anais: Yeah. I loved doing it. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Anais: I loved it so much. Patty Vest: You ... Go ahead. Anais: No. You. Patty Vest: You've shared your ... the connection that you found through your faith. Anais: Yes. Patty Vest: You mentioned a little bit about ... If you could tell us more about your Chicago connection that you were just talking about and also the background of coming from immigrant families that also brought you guys together. Can you talk more about those similarities? Giovanni Ortega: Well, Anais is a Posse Scholar. Anais: I am. Giovanni Ortega: So that was one of the entry points right away. There was a student named King Robinson a few years back in 2014, who ... when I was still lecturing and it became a visiting ... worked with me and became my advisee, one of my first advisee. He was a Posse Scholar. The culture of Pomona College and the Claremont college is if someone is interested in working with you, guess what, the friends send the ... The allies start coming in. So through the years, I think there's this conversation with Posse Scholars and students who take my classes and the moment they say, "I'm a Posse Scholar." I was like, "Oh, okay. Welcome home. Welcome to the family." Now that Posse ... We have Posse Scholars from Miami as well. The initial point was they were from Chicago. Right? And specifically ... Correct me if I'm wrong, because you're the scholar here. Students who are ... Many are POCs- Anais: Yes. Giovanni Ortega: ... who had to vie and constantly prove themself. I also want to add because we are ... Anais and I identify as people of color, there's this sense that we have to overcompensate and work three times as hard to get to where we are. That's a shared experience that we have. And still we get the stereotype that we got in because of the color of our skin. Right? Anais: Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: So that is the narrative we're constantly trying to dismantle. And a shared experience that we have that it's not just this happy space that we occupy but also moments where Anais can say, "Yo, this person just said this." I'll be like, "Okay. Well, let's talk." Right? So Chicago is a huge space for us and my other advisees still we have coming from immigrant families. Anais: And having met my first year with ... So I was raised by my mother. My father's definitely a part of my life but I was raised by my mother predominantly. And then to leave ... Not only to leave home but to go to California, to just go across the country, I was still reeling from missing my family, of constantly feeling away from my family, of feeling ... My first auto-drama that I wrote and performed when I was an acting student with Meaghan was about me packing my bags and having a conversation with my abuela who was disappointed that I was leaving. I was like, "Are you kidding me? I became a Posse Scholar. I got into Pomona College. Do you not understand? Everything I gave to get this." Mark Wood: The other side, right. Anais: And then she's like, "You could have stayed here and been with the family and you're leaving me." I was roommates with my grandmother for 10 years. We had bunk beds. The bunk bed is still there. Patty Vest: My gosh. Anais: I just now sleep on the sofa downstairs because I just can't do the ... I've now had a single for three years at Pomona. I can't do it any more. She hates me for it. But- Giovanni Ortega: Me and my abuela slept on the floor. Okay. Anais: You know what fair. You know what fair. Giovanni Ortega: [crosstalk 00:27:08]. Mark Wood: Right. Anais: Fair enough. He humbles me all the time. But yeah, just having that my first year when I was still homesick. I'm still trying to figure out where can I see glimpses of home in Claremont in a town that doesn't look like Chicago where I grew up in Chicago. And it definitely doesn't have the weather issue. But then it was really powerful to work with professors who ... friends and peers who knew home, who knew Chicago, who knew how weird it is that you don't hear sirens here all the time and that it's too quiet and that's strange and trying to drop your guard all the time. All these different factors that come with growing up in the city. And you understood them. Giovanni Ortega: Yeah. Absolutely. Anais: And more importantly you understood why home was so important for me because of my mom and my abuela. You understood the ... Dude, it's weird being alone in my dorm room when I don't have my abuela and that was my best friend. She is my best friend. So it is this weird thing of I can't believe ... I couldn't believe I was talking to my professor about it at all. You're my professor. You're just my teacher. But no, you became family as well because you understood the family that I was leaving behind and constantly feeling like I had abandoned her sometimes. Giovanni Ortega: She was in Panama, was she there? Anais: She was in Panama. Speaker 3: She ended up going right? Anais: You mean when I went to Panama? Speaker 3: Yeah. Giovanni Ortega: We did a CERP in Colombia and then Panama. Anais: Yes. My [foreign language 00:00:13] was already in Panama that month visiting with her younger brother, because he's very ill, so she was helping them take care of the family there. Then I call her and I'm like, "Hey, I got a CERP, I got funding from my school, I'm going to be in Bogotá, Columbia." Anais: Which Panama and Columbia, they have their grievances, but I was going for there ... I mean let's get real. Anais: So we went to Bogotá and then I was like, "No, if we're going to be there, we have to CERP in Panama." Anais: So I stayed with her for a few days, stayed with my uncle, it was a good time. That was absolutely crazy to go ... Another thing of Gio of like- Giovanni Ortega: Oh my goodness, that was so nerve wrecking for me, with her being there too. I didn't realize [crosstalk 00:01:00]. Speaker 5: Why? Speaker 4: Tell us about the CERP. Oh yeah, go ahead though. Speaker 3: Tell us the topic of the CERP and the- Anais: The topic of the CERP was about interacting with the identity of a Latina, of identifying with these women, but then also how does artistry, how does the art, how does theater, how does however we are able to explore who we are as people and then share that which for me was theater and then performance. It was about having those conversations in those environments, about going to them rather than reading about it or just admiring of these incredible people that are putting on these very powerful projects abroad, but then I was never in this space. Anais: I've hardly ever traveled out of the country before that. I think I was at one of my first time. I'd been to Panama once, I went my senior year of high school as a birthday gift. I was like, "Oh, you get to finally see where you're from, to finally see where your mom grew up," the home and everything, but then that was my first time back and I think my second time out of the country? That was weird. Anais: Then I was going for school with a professor- Speaker 3: Without your family. Anais: Without my family and they were like, "Wait, Oh, you're going with Gio? I guess we trust Gio." Anais: My family was super protective about me leaving the country, but they were trusting because I knew I was going with my mentor and that he wouldn't lie to me. That's why he was nervous [crosstalk 00:02:36] no pressure. Anais: That was what the project ... That's what I wanted to have exposure to out there, and then Gio got us in touch with Trick Law Company or friends of his- Giovanni Ortega: Yeah, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, there a whole theater company that went down. Anais: I got to hop on the battle bandwagon there. That was really cool, he was like, "We have a project, this is what you're" ... Anais: I flew in a few days late, I remember, because I was still transitioning out of my finals week. It was quite literally right after I left Pomona, hop to Chicago real quick, then I flew right back out to Bogotá. Giovanni Ortega: She came in the day before the performance. And so the whole concept is ... The title is [foreign language 00:03:23], mother of exiles. So it was in this neighborhood called Candelaria? Anais: Yes. Giovanni Ortega: And it was a beautiful like house that's turned into a theater for the community. It's a very poor community, people were like, "Don't go there, you know, it's a bad neighborhood," but we got there and it was so beautiful, it was just a poor neighborhood is what it was. Giovanni Ortega: The whole concept is site specific and immersive, you go to different rooms and different pieces of the play is simultaneously happening and you just kind of piece it together. But there was one section where everybody is in one spot, it's the beginning actually. And then she arrived and we threw her into the story. Anais: He threw me in, I showed up and I was like, "Oh, it's Friday, show goes up tomorrow" ... No, it went up that evening, wasn't it? Giovanni Ortega: No. I think you came in the afternoon, the following- Anais: I came in, I think it was a Thursday night. The Friday morning was the show that was that day. And they were like ... I'm like, "I'm here, what do you want me to do?" Giovanni Ortega: That's right, Thursday night and then Friday was the performance. Anais: I really didn't know, he was just like, "Get ready." He kept texting me, "Get ready." Anais: And I was like, "Oh my God, I'm getting on the plane." Anais: He was like, "Okay." Anais: And then the next day I show up, they're like, "We want you performing at the beginning as the daughter, as the youngest in the family." Anais: And hey put me in this insane dress. It was beautiful, but I looked like a [foreign language 00:04:55], I looked like a doll. And I'm coming down these stairs and I'm trying not to trip down and I'm also speaking in Spanish, I'm performing in Spanish. Giovanni Ortega: Never done before. Totally different by the way. Anais: I'm so self conscious about my Spanish speaking stuff, my Spanglish is on point. My grandmother speaks to me in Spanish, I respond English that is how [crosstalk 00:05:13] Speaker 3: You're fluent in Spanglish but- Anais: Fluent in Spanglish, performing in Spanglish, oh my gosh, that was crazy. That was crazy. They just threw me in and they were like, "We want," ... Anais: But from the beginning I'm meeting these actors that morning. It is the morning of and they've already been working on this piece for a week. And then I come in and they're like, "We want you in this room with us, this is what you're going to be doing, but also what do you see? What needs to change? What about this perspective? What do you want to be doing?" Anais: And I was like, "I just got here, you could tell me to sit there and I will happily do so," because I'm so excited to be there. Speaker 3: Looking like a [foreign language 00:05:52] Giovanni Ortega: It was polka dot red, big skirt- Anais: Poofy, the biggest sleeves, some Snow White, Cinderella but not high budget. And they had me like running around between ... I was a guide for the audience members because they were transitioning between rooms. I would lead them into one room, and I would give them a bag, and they were supposed to give it to the performers. I was kind of their Segway into the room, and I remember, that was one of those incredible pieces too, where it was .... Oh my gosh, they were opening, Speaker 3: Was it [Elisaz 00:06:34]? Anais: It was [Elisaz 00:06:34] she was receiving a bag because she was taking in the refugees- Speaker 3: In the kitchen? Anais: She was taking in refugees into our kitchen. You had to tell them to be ... I was running them in and I was like, "Shh, you got to be quiet," because they were hiding from the authorities, and she takes them in and she's giving them these care packages that she's making them all for their journey and at the same time she receives a bag that is something of our fathers that returned to her. Anais: And so you're seeing the father packing the bag- Speaker 3: As a ghost. Anais: As a ghost behind her and then you're watching her simultaneously open the bag and it was, one, tear jerker, emotional, but then it was funny because I spent the entire afternoon working on the synchronization of that piece with them because they had a person now to help them with that. And it was crazy feeling like I was such a huge part of something I literally jumped into the morning of and this is something they've been working on. Anais: Planning for months, this project and it brought in performers from Poland and we had the Serato, the group that houses the resident theater company. And also the most incredible experience of, I went into this CERP thing and I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to find these women." Anais: I got to work with the most incredible bad ass women I could even ... Oh so cool, but then the exciting part was the lesson of your hearing Polish, English and Spanish all in one room, all in one play, about this unified story of migration and exile and of finding refuge and family and theater was the through language. The art was the language and by the end of that weekend honestly, we were starting to be able to understand each other and appreciate each other, but from the beginning it was Anais and Gio were translating. Anais: I was like, "One, who made me" [crosstalk 00:08:25]. Giovanni Ortega: By the end she was translating though, because [inaudible 00:08:30] not everybody spoke Spanish, by that point I was tired. So this one was translating at that point. Anais: But it was the theater was our shared language. It was so beautiful, it was one of the most beautiful experiences. Speaker 4: The stories you've been telling, kind of remind me of something I had been fascinated with, which is the sort of the two sides of mentorship. There's the very supportive side, all the support you've gotten from Gio, but there's also the pushing. There's the tough love. Anais: Gio kicks me [crosstalk 00:09:07]. Speaker 5: The subtle get ready. Speaker 4: Can we talk a little bit about how you balance that? How you know what's right for a person that you're working with? Anais: You leave them their senior year, and you let them flounder. Giovanni Ortega: I am dealing with this right now. The messages I get from all the 17 years and everybody else. I abide by four rules. Speaker 3: Do you know what they are? You know they are. Anais: Why are you testing me? Giovanni Ortega: Visionary- Anais: Visionary, collaborative, nurturing and compassion? No, that is nurture, what is the last one? Giovanni Ortega: Oh my goodness, decisive. Anais: That's the one I'm not, That's the one I still share. Giovanni Ortega: You kind of can see it in people, the fact that Anais wanted to be a politics major and had very strong opinions but as her heart showed, that she is going to be a leader. The first day I met her, I was like, "Oh okay there's, there's still a lot of training to do, but this is definitely a leader in the making." Giovanni Ortega: And by the time we got to Columbia it was really testing those waters already, but also being there, I always said be cautious and conscious. Now we will not discount the fact that lot of South America is very patriarchal. There was a moment in Panama where being haggled happens and I was like, "Oh okay," well I am very cautious. So how do we make sure- Anais: He felt so bad. Giovanni Ortega: I did? And it was two blocks, I make sure that she has her space but I have my space, but then it's not too far away. 10 minute walk, and I was like, "Okay, well then I have to make sure that you get home with the theater company," and things like that. Giovanni Ortega: That's the thing, we cannot be hidden in our shells. Specially now when the rise of patriarchy, is rearing its head because we're now in a space where everybody is given a voice, especially, women of color can speak their minds of the backlash's. There's that side of fear who will say, "No, stay in your lane." Giovanni Ortega: And I know enough where I can step back and say, "There's your space, go. You go girl you got this!" Giovanni Ortega: But at the same time, I'm still watching, and just to Segway through her thesis project, I knew, for a fact that I was going to be gone the fourth, when she realized that I was going to be gone- Speaker 5: She's pouting. Giovanni Ortega: When she realized that I was going to be gone, they weren't happy. I knew right away that, "My fourth year I'm going to be gone." How do we instill the knowledge and the mentorship so that she's ready to direct her show and next semester? Anais: You make it seem like I'm being unreasonable and my being ... The funny part is that he got caught. That's the funny part, that's the joke is that I didn't know he was going to be gone my senior year, so I'm talking with another professor, with Carolyn Ratteray. I'm in her Shakespeare class and we're talking about being seniors and what shows will go up our senior year, and she's like, "But we're not going to have that many in house professors directing that's that year." Anais: Then I'm like, "Well what do you mean?" Anais: And she's like, "Well I'll be gone, Gio will be gone" ... Anais: And I go, "Gio's going to be gone my senior year?" Anais: And she goes, "Yeah, you guys have talked about this, right? because thesis?" Anais: I just pull out my phone, and I'm like, "Hey Gio, do you have anything you want to share with me?" Anais: And he goes, "Who told you?" Anais: That is his immediate response, He knows exactly what I'm talking about, because he knows it's going to spook me. The great thing is that Gio is always sharing. He's like, "We're working on this together." Anais: We're working on my path as a director of making sure I have all these resources available to me as a director even though technically, directing is not like a track in our department. We've just been kind of building these up. Creating an emphasis, because he told me from the beginning, he's like, "We don't have this in order apartment, but we will build it, and we will build it for students after you as well to partake in and be empowered by." Giovanni Ortega: Her year is the first year in a very long while, who's now part of a studio season, whose thesis is produced and supported in a way that it hasn't been before. Anais: It's like in tangent to the main stage season, which is huge, no pressure. No pressure for Zed and I and another one of his mentees. I still remember when that came up of like, "I'm going to be" ... Anais: He'll be gone, because he was my primary mentor and then Carolyn Ratter was going to be gone. And Megan Paul's technically still a visiting professors so she couldn't legitimately be my advisor, though she'll always be a huge friend and mentor of mine. Anais: Then we brought in Jessie Mills a new professor, well this is her second year now. But Jessie's a directing professor and she teaches acting, but she also just has ... Primarily as a director and when we were conducting interviews, I remember my Shakespeare class was the class that was the Guinea pig for all the different professors that we were bringing in to interview, and when we met Jessie, we were like, "That's a fit right there, that's a partnership." Anais: I was so jazz when I met her and I was talking about all these projects with her. And I knew when I went back to Gio and I was like, "I'm so excited about Jessie." Anais: He's like, "I know you are." Anais: Because he's working it around, he's making sure that we're going to be taken care of, that we have the mentorship that we need because Gio is not always going to be my only mentor in life, he is not. It's about expanding on that and this is like a bigger family that we're building in our department. It's not just Gio taking care of everyone, it's enabling us to find other creative minds who are going to work with us and help us. Anais: So Jessie is my kind of in supporting me in this thesis, which is Daphne's Dive is by Quiara Alegría Hudes. She wrote Water by the Spoonful, She won the, how do you pronounce it? Pulitzer. I always fail at that, that's okay. That's not what I'm ... Pronunciation is not my game. Anais: I remember that we were on the same place selection committee for the past season that just went up and I brought in Daphne's Dive as an option to do on the main stage. And then the team liked it. It consists of some staff members and then students, mainly underclassmen students, then the staff, like the faculty will approve at the end on four shows that meet like the logistical needs of our season. I was really excited about that show, then at the last second, it just didn't pan out what we did water by the spoonful instead, which went up when I was abroad in London last fall. Anais: I still remember the inside joke of us winking across the table. It was like, "Daphne's isn't happening now, wink, wink, but I'm going to make sure it happens at some point." Anais: That's what I proposed when I came back from London in January when I got back, I did, was it like a 30 minute pitch? A 30 minute like walk through of my vision of this play. Giovanni Ortega: I told them, you need to do a PowerPoint. It's one of those things, if you're going to go out into the real world, you cover your basis and if you're going to propose something, be ready and look professional. Anais: He and Jessie prepped me, they were like, "This is your vision, this is what you want to be doing? Tell us, show us." Anais: I got up in front of the whole staff, staff members I never even worked with because they're the dance professors. And I pitched a vision, a dream that I had in my head of this show that I wanted to do and that I wanted to advocate for myself that, "Hey, they should go up main stage. This should go up with the same resources that Gio would get, as if he's directing Cabaret or he's directing Government Inspector." Anais: Both Zed and I, Zed Hopkins and I were approved and were doing our shows and in rep with each other and that's great because that's what graduate students are doing in they're MFA directing programs. They're shows in rep with each other, so we're getting that experience as undergrads and we can take that when we go for our MFAs eventually, if that's all the cards. Giovanni Ortega: It's your calling card. Anais: That's what we're building and that's what's going up in the spring. So Daphne's Dive opens on April 8th. I can't believe it's already happening in April. It's just, it's lived in here in my mind for so long and in my heart and now I'm going to be casting actors, hopefully this semester., and it's all happening. Anais: Which is just bizarre because a year ago was I was abroad in London. I was like, "I hope I could do something like this for my thesis." Anais: And now it's, "Oh, it's happening." Anais: I'm working very closely with the faculty now of like, "Okay, how are we going to make this happen? How are we going to build this, the shell of what the studio series can be so that, future years like the juniors and the sophomores and everyone, or students who come into the department, know this has happened before and this is something that they can do so that they can create?" Anais: Zed is writing his own original paper, which is crazy. He's writing his own piece and he's putting it up in the spring and then I'm taking a very beloved piece and trying to honor who's this work. That's an intimidating because she's a huge inspiration of mine and so that's what we're doing in the spring and it's ... He helped initiate, he was like, "You have this dream, you know you can make it happen. Right?" Anais: Like with the CERP, I didn't know I could go abroad. Giovanni Ortega: Or LDA, London Dramatic Academy, she was admitted to their semestral program. Anais: I jumped on that wagon so late. It was like, "Gio, I think I want to go abroad next semester." Anais: He's like, "Well, the application is closing in a like how long? How late are you?" Giovanni Ortega: Let me email them. Let me email Kat. Anais: Let me email everyone, he's like, "I have this kid, she's very late to the table but" ... And so I went abroad to London last fall. I was there a year ago. Speaker 4: Tell us about that experience. Anais: Oh my gosh, it was terrifying. I'm a director primarily, it's an acting conservatory. You are acting Monday through Friday all day. Honestly you're acting all seven days a week because you are prepping for the next week as soon as[crosstalk 00:20:01]. Giovanni Ortega: Very rigorous. Anais: Very rigorous, I was one of 17 students, we're all American students who study with Fordham University's program in London. We lived in Clerkenwell and it was an incredible experience. I never thought I'd be in Europe, I'd never been to Europe before, I'd never been across the Atlantic, that was terrifying. Anais: It was funny because I felt like I was following my mom's footsteps because she went to Paris. She studied in Paris for a full year and my grandmother also hated her for doing that. She was like, "How dare you go and leave me for a year in a different country." Anais: So my grandmother was like, "Why do you have to ... You went to California, now you got to go to the [Foreign Language 00:20:37]?" Anais: She was just so angry, but very proud at the same time, I always say proud, but angry proud. Speaker 3: Angry/proud. Anais: Angry/proud. I finally found my niche as a director. Here I am like, "Okay, I want to go abroad, I want to get the actors experience, so I'm going to go hang out with 16 other actors day in, day out for three months." Anais: I was always just so intimidated. It was an inside joke with Catherine Parks and the director of the program and also my acting instructor and I that she was like, "You you have the mind and the heart of a director, but time to push yourself, understand what your actors are doing and what they experience." Anais: So I have that complete love and respect and regard for what actors that I work with do. Giovanni Ortega: So Important. Anais: The preparation. The talent, the just the immense courage it takes to perform. It was an incredible experience. It was also just being in a different country and finally believing in myself. Like, "I can be an adult. I can do this thing nowhere near my family and nowhere near anything I quite know." Anais: And a lot of identity crisis and imposter syndrome, but overcoming that was what I brought back with me of, "I did that." Anais: And every time I freak out here now as a senior, I'm like, "No, but I did that." So many times. Anais: Gio came to visit us when we were in London. He ran a workshop, I think was it was at the end of our first month there. I was still rattled and still like, "Oh my God, I can't believe I'm here, what am I doing here? I have two and a half more months here." Anais: I remember I wasn't quite vibing with my cohort yet. And he came and he taught a workshop and it was the first time that the 17 of us were working as actors and performers in a room at the same time. It was the first time we were all together because we're separated in like two different sections usually when we perform, so we're never quite altogether. Anais: And I remember you came and you taught that workshop and we all finally like snapped and we became a group. We became a cohort at that moment. Giovanni Ortega: You can Venmo me later. Anais: Here's my tuition that you still get. I was like, "That's still there." Anais: It was weird because I remember I was like, "I don't know if I'm going to vibe with these people for that long." Anais: And yet the same experience that I had here where it's like I can't believe I'm being seen by these people and nurtured by these people, and I'm going through this very difficult struggle of trying to tap into who I am as a performer and as an artist and as a person in front of strangers. And then they were no longer strangers after that workshop that Gio taught. Anais: That was just weird. Madeline Carr is another student of his, she was my roommate and I remember we like stopped and we were like, "What is it that Gio has?" Anais: This is all going to your [foreign language 00:23:41]. He came and he's like, "They're having a hard time at LDA? I'll just show up." Snaps. Everything's good. Yeah. Anais: At the end of the semester we were all reflecting on what a an emotional roller coaster it was. And then we all point back to, we're like, "But when your professor Gio came to work with us, that's where we became a family, we became a cohort." Anais: LDA, the staff always say that the cohort that Madeline and I are a part of was the most nurturing, supportive- Speaker 3: That's so wonderful to hear. Anais: And loving group to each other, that usually it's the case of the egos. And then I'm like, "We got to bring a little bit of who we are from Pomona and Claremont and art community over to London." And that was really powerful. Okay. Speaker 5: You talked a little bit about how you found out that Gio isn't going to be here for your senior year- Anais: Betrayal. Giovanni Ortega: Betrayal. Anais: Ouch. It's still fresh. Speaker 5: Because you're on sabbatical? Giovanni Ortega: Yeah, I'm on my steel leave. Speaker 5: Can you tell us what you're working on- Anais: Briefly. Giovanni Ortega: Well, in a nutshell, aside from going to LDA next week, I'm doing another workshop they have four students there right now. My research started out as the immigrant's [inaudible 00:24:59] imagination, because growing up a 1.5 immigrant race by my [foreign language 00:25:04] and my mom was an overseas worker. I thought those narratives, those stories need to be told. Giovanni Ortega: So I've been fortunate enough and are so grateful to be here at Pomona College who supports it and relishes and the work that we do as researchers and artists, creatives. I realized that the stories are important for me as an immigrant or a child of an immigrant, but it extends out of that. Giovanni Ortega: Last year because of the group of CERP students that we worked with and this year we've started the International Imagination Collective that really interrogates the notion of equity. Or for that matter, dismantling marginalized communities, from indigenous populations, immigrant issues, environmental issues that affect marginalized communities more than anyone. I don't think people realize that. Giovanni Ortega: People who are poor or indigenous, the Amazon's, the Cayenne people of Borneo, are deeply affected by climate change and environmental issues, but also issues that relate to women of color or women in general, we forget that outside of North America or Western countries, we call it Western, Patriarchy is so rampant. How do we get to tell those stories without saying, "Let me tell you your story," but, "How do you want your story told, so that you can continue to tell it when, when I'm not here?" Giovanni Ortega: Sustainability is so important, that's what I'm doing. And in the next year or so, I've been fortunate enough to spend two months in Asia and then Australia. I was in Sao Paulo doing some work. And I'll be in Europe next week. Ah, it's next week. Speaker 4: Anais, I know you're focused like a laser on your big project coming up. Can you look past that a little bit to where you're ... What your plans will be after Pomona? Anais: My time at Steppenwolf for the summer really helped me figure out, "This is how I've been nurturing my identity as a theater arts at school, but where is that going to translate to where I want to be after." Anais: And I'm always debating between pursuing an MFA and directing, but also I'm considering an MFA in theater management now because I really admire a company, especially like a nonprofit company like Steppenwolf in building this, the shared mission and what that means for a collection of artists and of administrators who help protect in propelled that artistic vision of what that does to a community, what that does to our larger American theater community. And I really want to work on that. I want to contribute to that in a way that maybe I'm not going to be ... And I still want to be a director. Anais: There's so many freelance directors who they work their nine to five and then they're working on the side, and their contribute to all these great projects, but I really want to be able to be a theater administrator and help build that shared culture of who are we as artists? What are the stories we're telling? What's the intentionality in the seasons that we are building, and the plays that we put together? What's the message unifying all of them? Anais: Because there is unity in the different stories that we tell, the different identities that we bring forth through our work. And so I would love to pursue being at the front of that and being able to just can continue to empower the people around me that are doing fascinating work. Anais: That's a longterm goal, right now I see myself ... I worked in development at Steppenwolf, so fundraising, working with a board of trustees, engaging a larger community around Steppenwolf that's not just, who are the artists? Who are the staff supporting the artists and building the work? Specifically supporting Steppenwolf education. That is a huge thing, the education, of how are we empowering our students to tell their stories because those are the stories that we need to propel forward. The future is where we need to be focused and protecting. Anais: In those ways, I want to keep working in development because I want to keep finding and accessing the resources and getting the attention around like, "This is why we're doing as meaningful to Chicago, to the United States, to our global community." Anais: That's what I'm going to keep doing, hopefully. So fundraising and making sure that we're getting what we need to keep doing the great work, because that's what's been happening here at Pomona. People are giving me the resources to do, migrate work, a CERP, a piece of to do to be at Steppenwolf all summer. I think that's equally important that I continue to find that for others. Speaker 5: Awesome. For both of you, what advice do you give to high school students who are thinking about theater? Or not thinking about theater? Anais: Go with the impulse. It was a pure impulse of like [crosstalk 00:30:52] Giovanni Ortega: Such a very actor [crosstalk 00:30:54]. Anais: You trained me well. Giovanni Ortega: It's true though. Anais: But taking basic acting was just a, "Oh, do it now. Why not do it now? I know I like" ... Anais: I told Betty, I took one acting class when I was a sophomore in high school. That's all I had time for my schedule or very strict four year plan is one acting class. I was like, "This is a chance to have fun, to enjoy it, to meet new people in this class." Anais: And that completely changed the trajectory of what I was doing and honestly of my life. I see myself as an artist now, that was never a core tenant of who I was. Maybe a student, maybe an academic, but I'm an academic and I'm an artist and that's so important to who I am and who I will continue to be. Anais: So follow the impulse because you never know where you're just going to fall and you're going to find this new passion. I always tell people I fell in love with theater at Pomona and it's the greatest love of my life right now, is theater. I think people need to find what they love because we don't always have access to that where we come from. And I didn't have access to theater where I was growing up. I didn't know Steppenwolf was thing I didn't know Chicago was a theater hub and I was in the middle of it, born and raised and had no clue. Anais: Now I get to touch into all of that thanks to my time here. So you never know, go with the impulse and don't be scared of really out there professors. Have your whole vision ready for you. Speaker 5: Two years, part of your plans. Anais: Don't to be scared of his plan. Giovanni Ortega: For me, tell your story, if you feel like your story needs to be told, tell it. It's storytelling, right? Oh, I think that's really important. Speaker 4: On that note, we're going to wrap this up. Our thanks to Theater Senior on Anais Gonzalez Nyberg and Giovanni Ortega, assistant professor of theater and dance. Thanks. Giovanni Ortega: Thank you so much for having us. Speaker 4: This was fun. Speaker 5: Thank you to both, and to all have stuck with us this far. Thanks for listening to Sage Cast, the podcast at Pomona College. Until next time.