Patty Vest: Welcome to Sagecast, the podcast of Pomona College. I'm Patty Vest. Mark Wood: And I'm Mark Wood. This season on Sagecast, we're talking with a variety of Pomona College students about topics and experiences that shape their collegiate lives. Patty Vest: Today we're talking about Pomona College's Academy for Youth Success, also known as PAYS, a college access summer program for local high school students. Joining us for this discussion are Danny Ta, class of '22, and Ezequiel Estrada, class of '20, current teaching assistants of PAYS and alumni of the program. Mark Wood: Welcome, Danny and Ezequiel. Danny Ta: Happy to be here. Ezequiel Estrada: Likewise. Mark Wood: Let's start with your own backgrounds. Tell us a little bit about yourselves. Where you're from and how'd you first hear about PAYS. Ezequiel Estrada: Okay. I can go first. So, I'm from Baldwin Park, which is like 25 minutes away, and every time I mention Baldwin Park, I have to mention the fact that we had the first In-N-Out, so there's that. Mark Wood: Yay. Patty Vest: Point of pride right there. Mark Wood: That is definitely a point of pride. Patty Vest: Absolutely. Ezequiel Estrada: Right. Yeah. Very. Mark Wood: Merited. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Thank you. I first heard about PAYS in high school because my counselor chose the top whatever of the class, and we had a meeting where we were exposed to PAYS and kind of talked about what it was. And then I applied, and then I got in, and yeah. Danny Ta: I'm from Ontario, California. Much closer than Baldwin Park, so I'm a local. I heard about PAYS also through my counselors, so my counselor met with one of the people working with PAYS at the time, and then they had, I think, the top 30 or 40 students come into the classroom, and they gave us a presentation, and then they just gave us applications afterwards, and then we just applied. Patty Vest: For someone who's not familiar with PAYS, how would you describe the program? How is it structured? And how does high school students apply and enroll? Both or any of you. Mark Wood: Let's say Ezequiel is starting, so just so that people know, can start to recognize the voices. Patty Vest: The voices. Ezequiel Estrada: Okay. Yeah. So, PAYS is a three summer long high school experience, so you start the summer after your freshman year of high school, and then continue the summer after sophomore year, and the summer after your junior year, and during each year you have a math and a critical inquiry course. So, you do math with one math professor, well, both math and critical inquiry are usually taught by Pomona College professors, or from the 5Cs. Ezequiel Estrada: And then critical inquiry is kind of like ... How would you describe it? Danny Ta: ID1 course that we have at Pomona College. So, it's basically a lot of reading, writing, and then engaging in discussions. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. And then, after lunch, all the students have electives that they have chosen before, like they wanted to be a part of it, and those are taught by the TAs. So, both me and Danny are teaching an elective this summer. And that group of students is from the three different grade levels. So, it's kind of like an awesome opportunity to ... for the TAs to have ... to know more people outside of just their specific TA group that they're working with for the summer. Ezequiel Estrada: And then, in the last summer of PAYS, the rising seniors, they have a research component where they work with professors at the college on research or doing something that would prepare them for college. So mine, when I was in PAYS, I did computer science with Professor Chen, so me and my friend Diana coded a game. We were terrible. But, we did a game. And what was ... Danny Ta: And then I did astronomy with Professor Choi, and we observed stars. Patty Vest: Okay. And how do you apply? How did you ... If you're a prospective student, a high school student, how would you get into PAYS? Ezequiel Estrada: Back when I applied in 2013, so not that old ... Because now there's an online application, you can just fill it out, and before I don't think that was an option. Yeah, I definitely know I did my application. So yeah, that's an online application, and I guess ... was yours online? Danny Ta: I wasn't ... No. It wasn't online. It was on paper. Ezequiel Estrada: Okay. So, we're still from another era. So yeah. Mark Wood: You're already starting to feel old. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. No, really. So, I guess you just ... They still ask for the same things, but it's all online. And I guess you also email ... So, the application asks for background information, family income, letters of rec from your counselor and teachers, and then two essays. Is there anything else that it asks? Danny Ta: No. I think that's it. So yeah, most students find out about PAYS and get the application from either their counselor or a teacher that has some connection with PAYS, or PAYS visits them. Some other students also can ... If they're local, they can ... sometimes they would search for certain programs, college access programs, to just apply for and that's how they find out about PAYS as well. Mark Wood: So, what was it about PAYS that drew each of you to the program? Dan, you want to start? Danny Ta: So, definitely, what drew me was that I knew that it was a college access program, so it allowed me to have more knowledge about applying to college and what college life is all about. So, as I identified as first gen, so none of my family went to college in the U.S., therefore I did not really know much about the process. I knew that I wanted to go to college. My family always encouraged me to go to college, and so I started looking for ways to give myself more knowledge about the process and college life in general so that I would be able to succeed. Ezequiel Estrada: Truthfully, I didn't want to apply to the program, because I was like ... That was really outside of my comfort zone. And I don't even think I told my parents about it. But, just because I was very much ... I guess I still am ... a good child. And I felt bad for not telling them about this, so then ... Mark Wood: Guilt is good for you. Ezequiel Estrada: I guess so. I'm here. It was like the application was due on the 22nd of February, I think. No, I'm pretty sure it was. So then on the 21st, I felt guilty. I was like, "Ma, there's this thing and I don't want to apply to it." And she was like, "You need to apply to it." And I was like, "But, I don't want to." So then there was like ... It was like, I did my homework, I think, for the day and it was like 11 p.m. and I was like, "Okay. I'm going to feel bad if I don't do it." So, I did it. So that's why I applied, and now I'm a Pomona College rising senior because of that. Mark Wood: That's a great story. Patty Vest: Thanks mom. Ezequiel Estrada: Thank you, mom. Mark Wood: Yeah, thanks mom. Ezequiel Estrada: Shout out. Danny Ta: Shout out to moms. Patty Vest: Shout out to Ezequiel's mom. Mark Wood: Moms of the world feel vindicated. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Thanks, mom. Patty Vest: That guilt, you know? It works. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah, I guess it came through. Mark Wood: Guilt is good for you. Patty Vest: It works. Mark Wood: Makes your life better in so many way. Ezequiel Estrada: To a certain extent. Danny Ta: To a certain extent, yeah. Patty Vest: Yes. Everything in good measure. Good point, Danny. Mark Wood: In moderation. Guilt in moderation. Patty Vest: Describe your experience as a PAYS student. How did it challenge you, and was it what you expected? Do you want to start, Ezequiel? Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. I feel like PAYS is always like ... I don't know, it's very hard to describe PAYS to someone that was not in the program themselves as a student, just because ... I don't know, when I think of PAYS, it's just like I can only describe it, I feel, as beautiful, I guess, just because ... I don't know, my summers in PAYS were always ... I was always around a group of friends, and felt like I had a place here. And they were very rewarding, and I always came out like I learned a lot about myself and being reminded that there was a supportive community I had through PAYS. Danny Ta: Yeah. So, PAYS helped me out a lot. Academically, they would teach me lessons that I would never gain during high school. Every summer in PAYS, like Ezequiel said, you feel accepted, you feel part of the community, you make long-lasting friendships that you will carry on with you, past college, past life, in the rest of your life. Yeah, I would describe it as beautiful, of course, because everything about it helped. It challenges you, and sometimes there will be hiccups along the way, but at the end you know that there are people there for you that will help you, and that's the best part about it. Patty Vest: Was it what you expected? You didn't want to apply. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah, actually when we were coming down the freeway to Pomona College from Baldwin Park, you pass Cal Poly Pomona, and I was like, "Ma, the school's right there. What are you doing?" And then we pulled up to Pomona College, which it's wild to think about the fact that ... So, I live right in front of, by the Baldwin Park train station, and then Claremont has a train station. Or I guess, at that point, 15 years of my life, it was three, four streets up the way, but why did I not know about this prestigious university that was so close to me. And even closer to you, because you didn't ... Danny Ta: Yeah. I didn't know about it either. Ezequiel Estrada: Right. Danny Ta: The only Pomona I knew what Cal Poly Pomona. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. And so, I guess I just thought it was an academic program, and I was going to be doing work, but it was that, but a lot more than that in terms of learning about identity and different things like that. Danny Ta: Yeah. I definitely expected it to be really challenging, almost to the point that I thought that I would not be able to manage it, but it was totally different. I ended up having so much resources, and then a key thing that PAYS emphasis to its applicants is that you get a lot of support, because the classes are going to be really small. So, usually these courses that the PAYS scholars participate ... or take, they are 15 to 18, at most, students per class for math class or critical inquiry, and that's really, really different if you think about it compared to the high schools that most of these students come from, where their classes are 30 to 40 students. Danny Ta: The experience is definitely different, and it forces you to come out of your comfort zone, and speak up, even when you feel that you might not have something good to say. Mark Wood: So, neither one of you had heard of Pomona before you came here. Why did you both end up choosing Pomona? Did the PAYS experience have a part in that? Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. I knew ... After my first summer in PAYS ended, I knew I wanted to come here and it was very much my dream school, but I didn't feel comfortable sharing that with anyone. And I remember one time, when I did tell my Spanish teacher from freshman year about it, about me wanting to come to Pomona, it was my top choice, the first thing she said was, "It's a very expensive school, so keep in mind ..." And I kind of ... What's the opposite of encouraged? Mark Wood: Discouraged. Patty Vest: Discouraged. Ezequiel Estrada: Discouraged. Yeah. That discouraged me a bit, and I was like, "I guess," but that was very ... I was also not as aware as I was later on, like senior year of high school, in different ... Like the fact that private schools have more money or whatever, practiced certain financial aid policies, and ... What was the question again? Mark Wood: Just why did you decide to continue your ... and your PAYS experience had something to do with it. Patty Vest: What made you come? Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Being at PAYS felt really nice. So then, I just, I guess, really fell in love with Pomona through PAYS, and so I knew when senior year came around, I was going to do early decision, and that's what I ended up doing, and was accepted through ED to Pomona. Danny Ta: So yeah, I chose ... A lot of my reasons that I chose Pomona College was also because of PAYS, because I definitely really feel like, going through the PAYS experience, it makes you fall in love with Pomona College as a whole, because everything that you do reinforces an aspect of Pomona College that you'll love. So, going through the math classes, well, the curriculum was created by a mathematics professor here, so if you like that curriculum, then you're going to like math here. Danny Ta: So, everything from that, to the community. You meet your TAs, most of your TAs are going to be Pomona College students as a PAYS scholar. Therefore, these connections that you have with your TAs, you will find out so much about Pomona College and why they chose it. It's obviously going to have a big influence on you, and it definitely did have an influence on me, and why I chose Pomona College. Mark Wood: The purpose of ... One of the stated purpose of PAYS is to prepare students for entry into some of the top universities and colleges, so did you ... You say you didn't know about the possibility of financial aid at the time. Is that something that you learned about as part of the counseling in PAYS? Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah, when I think about my own college application experience in comparison to other of my high-achieving friends ... High achieving is in quotes, that's like ... Yeah. Patty Vest: He did air quotes. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. I did air quotes for high-achieving, just because, obviously, that has a lot of nuances. Not obviously. Anyway, for my other friends that were performing similar to me in high school ... I guess it was known that we were going to go to college, or expected of us, but I can see differences in the way that ... I was able ... Now, I was able to see what privileges I had in being in PAYS because during that process, for example, a lot of my friends didn't know about Fly-In programs, which is specifically targeted for minority groups, or people who hold marginalized identities, so it's like I knew about them, but my friends didn't, but that's because I had PAYS. Ezequiel Estrada: Or knowing that private, liberal arts colleges are a thing, and they tend to have better financial aid packages. So, I guess it's more nuances of the process that you're exposed to in PAYS. At least for myself. I don't know about Danny. Danny Ta: A sense of understanding the financial aspect of college. In high school, at least from the high schools that most of these PAYS scholars attend, they don't really discuss a lot about the financial aspect of college, because they usually have them apply more to Cal State's and UC's, which definitely cost much less than the higher, private, selective private colleges. Therefore, PAYS definitely helps me in understanding the different ways in which I can receive money to go to college, to any college I want. Danny Ta: We have financial aid workshops, so during our senior year, there's different financial aid workshops throughout the school year, but also during the senior summer, the schedule for seniors is that for one day they go to math, and critical inquiry, but the next day they have an admissions workshop and a writing workshop, and then they switch between that. So, during that summer, I learned a lot about ways in which I can afford to go to colleges that I wanted to, so that definitely just shows that PAYS was able to educate scholars about the financial aspect of college, in ways that their high schools cannot. Patty Vest: So, let's fast-forward a bit. We talked about the time you were students at PAYS. Now you're involved in PAYS as teaching assistants. So, tell us a little bit about that role you have, the professor you work with, and what responsibilities you have. Ezequiel Estrada: There's three different grade levels in PAYS, the rising sophomores, the rising juniors, and the rising seniors. And then each grade level is put into two groups, A and B, so 10A, 10B, 11A, 11B. And then each of those TA groups has two TAs. So, I did PAYS two summers ago, and I was with a group of seniors, and then I'm, obviously, doing PAYS again this summer, and then I'm with the seniors again. Danny Ta: And then I'm working with the juniors. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. So then, the part where we're working with the professors, what we do is we go to our students' math classes, and their critical inquiry class, and just kind of assist the professor if they need anything during class, or in critical inquiry, if there's silence, in helping facilitate discussion by bringing something up into the conversation. I don't know, you want to mention other of our responsibilities? Danny Ta: Yeah. Some other responsibilities we have, we grade their homework and then we also ... Sometimes they have write-ups for math, so we would just help them with that process and, in general, as a TA, we're basically responsible for the whereabouts of our students, and their ability to give up the work inside the classroom, but also it's to just ensure that they're having fun outside as well. Patty Vest: Okay. Mark Wood: So, you've gotten into this a little bit already, but walk us through a day as a TA with PAYS. Danny Ta: Well, it starts bright and early at 7:30 a.m. That's when breakfast starts. 7:30 a.m to around 8:15-ish, and then we have a community meeting at 8:20 to 9:00. So, a community meeting is when the entire PAYS community meets in Roseville's theater. So, we meet and then we talk about any announcements we have, any birthdays, or if there's a sport tournament that day, any social activities, such as karaoke. We're having karaoke night today, actually. That's one of the ... There's also other stuff, like a talent show, and yeah. Danny Ta: So, it's just a way for everyone to just see each other before they embark on an eventful day. And then after that is math class from around 9:00 to 10:30, and after that critical inquiry, and then lunch at 12, and then after lunch, all students participate in an elective, that we mentioned earlier. TAs, tutors, and the RAs teach an elective. Their own elective, based on any of their interests. It can even be related to their major. So yeah. And then after that, it's 2:00 p.m. 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. is study sessions, but for the seniors ... Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. So, for the seniors, after the elective ends at 2:00, and then a thirty minute break between 2:00 to 2:30, and then from 2:30 to 4:30 they go into their research groups, and work with the professor that they're working with. And after that, they have ... So, the other grades, their at study session ends at 5:00, whereas ours ends at 5:30 because we start at 4:30, but they only have an hour of it. Danny Ta: But seniors also have less homework than the other students, because they only meet for math and critical inquiry twice a week, not four times a week. Ezequiel Estrada: And then the day they don't have those classes, they have a college admissions workshop from the admissions officers here, and then they work on their ... a writing workshop, where they work on their personal statements. And then after 5:00, 5:30 p.m., we go to dinner and then basically until curfew, the students have a choice to do their work, or hopefully they do it ... Right? Danny Ta: They're pretty good about it. Patty Vest: That's where that guilt comes in. Ezequiel Estrada: Right. That's what came through for me when I was in PAYS. But yeah, so do their homework, socialize, build community, play games, or relax. Mark Wood: You mentioned electives. What kind of electives? Ezequiel Estrada: Do you want to go first? Danny Ta: I'm teaching an elective called The Mathematics of Soccer. So, I'm really interested in math and soccer, and the bridge between those two things. I'm teaching my students about how math is used in soccer, such as the stats and analytics behind it, and geometry of soccer, such as ... Patty Vest: Nice. Danny Ta: With the soccer field and the geometry behind that. I'm just teaching them that math can be fun. Math can be different from what they experience in their class. They can apply it to something that they enjoy. So, a lot of the kids in my class really love soccer, so that they're really interested in that. Ezequiel Estrada: I'll give two examples. My first summer as a TA, my focus on being a first generation [inaudible 00:20:42] college student, so I just kind of talked, and that was right after my first year at Pomona. I just kind of talked. Part of my class was talking about how I felt being here with those identities, and how I navigated these spaces, and kind of suggest ways in which they themselves can apply these strategies when they go to college, and just exposing these ideas to them before the experience, just because I feel like even if you don't know what to do, it's helpful to know that these things might happen. And also just because for PAYS, for admissions, [and students 00:21:17] you need to do ... the requirements are that you hold one of the following three, which is be a person of color, a first generation student, or a low-income student. Right? Danny Ta: Yeah. Ezequiel Estrada: And so then, for this summer I kind of wanted to do something similar, but I guess just ... I feel like I've grown in the way that I can talk about things, since my first year at Pomona, but I don't want to ... I know I wanted to do something similar, so I broadened it to ... So, it's kind of like ... It's titled It Will be Okay: Identity and Healing. Or something like that. So we just kind of like ... A lot of what we've been doing is talking about ideas of love and self-love, and how we can take care of ourselves. And some of the students have described it like a mini-therapy session, which kind of feels like a very calm, comforting environment. And I'm very grateful for that space and sharing that with the students, because I feel like it's been helpful for me, and I hope, and I do also think it's been helpful for them. Ezequiel Estrada: So just very much having that space where we can talk about things. Talk about our emotions, which when you think about it, how often are we able to go into spaces where we can just be like, "This is what I'm struggling with," or, "This is something that's happened in my life, and this is why I struggle with it now." Mark Wood: Well, as a college student, I think it's easy to lock those things inside, and never talk about them. So, it's great to be able to do it even before you get here. Danny Ta: Some other electives that are happening this summer, there's a self-care elective, where they ... I think they just ... Mark Wood: Take care of themselves. Danny Ta: Take care of themselves. Yeah. It's like a lot of meditation, mental health, something like that. There's also a calligraphy elective that's taught by our RA, Eisen. Ezequiel Estrada: Eisen Ipac. Woo. Danny Ta: He just graduated from ... Ezequiel Estrada: Pomona '19. That's great. Shout out. [crosstalk 00:23:12] Danny Ta: Yeah. Shout out to Eisen, he just graduated from Pomona College. Yeah, one of my favorite electives, actually, was from my sophomore summer, or first summer in PAYS, it was actually on improve. An improv elective. That was really fun. Patty Vest: What was that like? Danny Ta: We basically play a bunch of improv games. As a sophomore, it's insane to be in that class, because you don't know anyone, really. You only really know a few other sophomores in that class, so it really helped me get out of my comfort zone and just go crazy. Ezequiel Estrada: Crazy [inaudible 00:23:43] Patty Vest: [inaudible 00:23:46] Are we okay? Tell us about why the work that you're doing is so important. Do you want to start, Danny? Danny Ta: I feel like that work that we're doing is important because we're sort of paying it back, in a way that we were PAYS scholars ourselves. We're hoping these students go through the same experience that we were able to go to, to help them reach their dreams, their hopes, their hopes and dreams that they've already aspired to accomplish each and every day. So, it's just a reminder that they can do it, they have people there to support them, and that they are able to accomplish whatever they desire. Ezequiel Estrada: I feel like the work is so important for the students, but also for the people that are working as TAs. For the students, because it very much provides them with a community, that they ... you can, hopefully, rely on in high school, but also once you transition to college. I think it's wild, because when I started Pomona I was like other people in my year, or my grade, from PAYS were also going to colleges. And it's like, wow, I can hit up a friend that goes to Columbia in New York, right? Danny Ta: Maybe you should hit up that person [crosstalk 00:25:15] to clarify. Ezequiel Estrada: I feel for the students it very much gives them a community, but also for the TAs, or staff, that's working for the summer, it's just very rewarding for us. At least, I don't know about you, you've been here for like a week and a half. Danny Ta: I feel like it's so rewarding. It's a good break from the summer. I've been reflecting on my first year. It's an amazing way to reflect on my first year, and keep myself motivated to start the rest of my college career. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. I have a friend who's done PAYS a few times as a [inaudible 00:25:49] from the program, but they worked as staff for a few summers, and this person describes ... Like, during the school year, it's so difficult to wake up for a 9:00 a.m. class, but then during PAYS, this person can so easily wake up at 6:30 a.m. every day because they know they're doing it for the students, and they get their drive from the students and interacting with them. Danny Ta: Yeah, it's definitely something we say a lot. Students give us energy to move on within the day, and that's just the best thing. Mark Wood: You mentioned the other students that you were in PAYS with, and that network that you created. Do you stay in touch with your former PAYS classmates? Ezequiel Estrada: I think it depends on the class, because some PAYS classes are closer, whereas others are kind of ... So, to a certain degree, yeah, but even if it's not my specific class I keep in touch with, I feel like I've kept in touch with different generations of PAYS. It's really wild to think about having been ... this program has been a part of my life since like 2013, which is six years ago. And there's been different iterations of the programs for me. When I was a student, and then when I was a TA, and then that's weird, because when I was first TA ... So, me and Danny started off PAYS, or ... Danny started off PAYS when I was in my last summer, and then two summers later he was in his last summer, and then I was a TA in the program, and then two summers later, we're both TAs in the program. Patty Vest: That's funny. Ezequiel Estrada: So it's very much different versions of the same thing, but [crosstalk 00:27:26] Danny Ta: It's different. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. This summer, specifically for me, has had me like because I am in this space, and the way that it is now, with different generations of PAYS, I'm in it with people who I was in the program with, but there's also a whole new generation of high school students who are in the program. And, we know what ... we have an idea of what they're feeling being here is very much ... it's very cool. Oh, yeah. The question was about keeping in contact. Ezequiel Estrada: But yeah, I keep in contact with the students I worked with two summers ago, and I see myself continuing to be in contact with the current high shool students, or other staff members from this summer, and I'm hitting the table. I saw that look, it was like ... Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Don't do that. Patty Vest: [crosstalk 00:28:09] like this. Mark Wood: It's so easy to do. Ezequiel Estrada: Next question. Danny Ta: I definitely keep up with my people that I met through PAYS. We also have some PAYS reunions from time to time for the alumni. They're always here at Pomona College. So, if possible, it's so nice to meet people again, just to catch up and talk about what's going on. Patty Vest: Tell us about some of the extra curricular activities that PAYS has. You mentioned the karaoke and things like that. What do you ... I think Fridays you have activities here. Tell us something that the students do, and do you take part of that as TAs? Ezequiel Estrada: I can talk about the afternoon activities, and then you can talk about ... Danny Ta: Fridays. Ezequiel Estrada: ... other things. Yeah. PAYS offers an afternoon activity, and those are mainly geared for the rising sophomores, and a few of the rising juniors. And then the rising seniors just can't do that, for the most part, just because they have research during the time that the afternoon activities usually take place. I think there's three afternoon activities, right? There's farm, which ... where they ... Danny Ta: The organic farm. Ezequiel Estrada: Do you want to describe that, because you were in it, right? Danny Ta: Yeah. So, there's the organic farm, and then so what PAYS students do, at least from my experience, I don't know if it's changed or not, but what I did was we would be able to go to the organic farm, see all the animals, feed all the animals, and we would also help with the crops, help with compost, and learn about the different aspects of the farm, and just have fun there. Ezequiel Estrada: So that was one of them. Another one was theater, and basically, I think, they ... throughout the summer, the students work to create a skit together that kind of relates to the theme of the summer. So, [inaudible 00:29:55] there's a theme. And then from that theme, the critical inquiry classes are based ... The critical inquiry classes are based off of that theme. So then at the end, we have closing ceremony, at the end of the program, where basically we dress up. It's like a little ceremony held in Little Bridges, where they call our names and we get a certificate, and then also the seniors who just graduated from high school, whoever already finished their three summers in PAYS, they walk the stage and we announce where they're going to college. Danny Ta: We keep a secret ... Well, as secret as possible beforehand, so that everyone gets surprised. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Mark Wood: So what is this year's theme? Ezequiel Estrada: This year's theme is ... Danny Ta: It's authorship, authority, and agency. And activists toolkit. Ezequiel Estrada: It's really long. They went off with the alliteration. Danny Ta: The alliteration, yeah. They snapped. Ezequiel Estrada: They did. Mark Wood: Do you remember what the themes were for many of your years? Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Danny Ta: Yeah. Let's go backwards. Ezequiel Estrada: Right. Okay. Rewind. So, my first summer, 2013, was the American education system, and then that one was really good because my critical inquiry class was taught by Gilda Ochoa, and that's her forte. That class was so good. That was a good summer too, and I'm very honored to have known her as a college student. And then I just took her classes this semester, past semester, and I've been wanting to, since I started Pomona. And then when that finally happened, I told her, I was like, "Seeing you make hand gestures, or the way that your tone and voice, was taking me back to when I was in PAYS." And that was like five or six years ago at that point. Ezequiel Estrada: So then my second summer, it was the American dream, but with a question mark. It was very edgy for its time. And, basically, the question mark was to question whether the American dream is something that actually exists, and is attainable, and if it is, what makes it harder for certain communities. And then my last summer, which was Danny's first summer ... Danny Ta: My first summer it was transcending boundaries. Ezequiel Estrada: Transcending boundaries. Yeah. Danny Ta: So, it was about getting out of your comfort zone, being more comfortable with others, and yeah. Ezequiel Estrada: And you want to talk about the years after? Danny Ta: And then I'll try to remember ... Was it critical ... Ezequiel Estrada: I wasn't there, but I know. 2016 was look up. Hashtag look up, so perspectives on social media. Danny Ta: Critical perspectives on social media. We wanted to have a ... So, we realized ... That was the year where social media really became prominent and very important, so we wanted to make a theme centered around that. And then after that, 2017 ... [crosstalk 00:32:32] Ezequiel Estrada: Was your last summer, when I was a TA. It was ... what was it? Danny Ta: Representation? Ezequiel Estrada: Representation in the media or something? Danny Ta: Something like that. Ezequiel Estrada: Something like that. And then the year after, last year, it was focused on environmentalism, and then this year ... oh, we've said it. Yeah. Patty Vest: Tell us about your best memory from PAYS. Ezequiel Estrada: There's a lot, as you can tell. Yeah. Mark Wood: So many to pick from. Danny Ta: It's hard. Patty Vest: You can tell us a few. Mark Wood: You can tell us two or three. Ezequiel Estrada: I haven't thought of those in a while. Patty Vest: And they could be as a student, or as a TA. Ezequiel Estrada: Okay. Do you want to go first? Do you have something ready? Okay. Go. It's hard. Well, my summer [crosstalk 00:33:14] Danny Ta: Fine. Thanks a lot. Mark Wood: We can tell that we didn't give you these questions before. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. This is all authentic. We're genuine people. Patty Vest: Hashtag authentic. Danny Ta: This is kind of general, but one of my favorite things during PAYS was playing volleyball. Volleyball is a big thing in PAYS, especially ... We were always at Walker Beach, so there's a volleyball court there. So, some of my most favorite memories were made on that ... made there, on Walker Beach. We always had fun playing volleyball after dinner, and ... Well, obviously, we did our work first, of course. Patty Vest: Of course. Mark Wood: Of course. Danny Ta: Of course. And then we played volleyball until curfew, basically, and those were the moments where we just had conversations with each other, laugh at each other, encourage each other, just ... everyone played volleyball. It was such an amazing experience. That's just one thing. Patty Vest: Ezequiel's still thinking. Ezequiel Estrada: It's hard to ... I don't know, as Danny was describing something about ... I don't know, what you were saying at the end, laughing or [crosstalk 00:34:17] Danny Ta: Yeah. The little moments. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. It's hard for me to pick something out. I just remember always laughing, and laughing with my TAs, and my friends, it was just a very good vibe. But I remember something that happened my first summer, which was ... it funny to me. So, when we had two TAs, and so then it was during study session, and then I ... the TA that I was going to go ask ... I was going to ask her for help on a math problem. She was busy with another student, so I went to my other TA and I was like, "Kimmy's kind of buys. So, can you help me on this one?" And then he was just kind of like, "Oh, so I'm your second choice." And I was like, "That's not what I meant." But it was a joke. I was like, "Ah." But it was little things like that. Yeah. I was like, "Ah." Yeah, it was fun. A funny moment. Patty Vest: It was awkward. Ezequiel Estrada: It wasn't awkward. I was just like, "Ah. I guess so." Mark Wood: If you could name one thing that you think is the most important thing you hope your students in PAYS will learn here, what would it be? See, these questions keep getting harder. Danny Ta: No. I have an answer. Patty Vest: Oh, he's smiling. He's like, "I got this." Danny Ta: I just want to tell them to be present, be in the moment. As PAYS scholars, it's a three summer experience, but it goes by faster than you can even imagine. So, it's definitely really important to be in the moment, enjoy connecting and bonding with your friends, and everyone throughout the program, because these friendships, like I said, they will last forever. And so, yeah, just be present. Enjoy it. And just, yeah. That's it. Yeah. Ezequiel Estrada: Can you repeat the question? I know it. I just want to hear it again. Mark Wood: How did I say it? Patty Vest: It was one thing that [crosstalk 00:36:10] to learn. Mark Wood: If there's one thing that you hope your students in PAYS will learn this summer, what would it be? Ezequiel Estrada: Okay, I'm going to try to explain. So, basically, when I was in PAYS as a student ... In high school, I felt like I had very high levels of self-esteem, and that was often based ... Like, my self-esteem was based on my perceived intelligence, or how I was doing in school, right? And so then I came to college, to Pomona, and I was like, "Oh. I do not belong here." Mark Wood: A little imposter syndrome. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Right. Which, I feel like a lot of people feel. Mark Wood: I think so, too. Ezequiel Estrada: Especially from marginalized groups. But then, I was ... So, when I was a TA during Danny's last year, I would see the students, and I would just get so much joy from being with them, and helping them with their homework, and I realized that the way that I was viewing the students was the same way that my own TAs were viewing me, and why was it so difficult for me to internalize that, while ... Ezequiel Estrada: The students are so great, and you ... In my elective this summer, they're talking about ways in which they don't see their own ... their struggle to value themselves, or their thoughts, or what they have to say, but I'm like, "No. If only you could see how great you are." Literally, every time I talk to them, I laugh and it's just so great to be around such a good presence. And then it's just weird, how I was mentioning that I, myself, was that student in a way. And so I guess I just want them to ... Personally, I've used that as a way to ... as a form of self-care. When things are rough at Pomona, and I feel not as competent as I used to be or whatever, I think about the way ... I think about, first of all, how I view the students in PAYS when I was a TA, and then think about ... Ezequiel Estrada: So yeah, how I view them, and then think, "Wow, that's the way that my TAs thought about me," right? So, I just would want them to take away and remember that they're so precious and they're so great, and we really ... I think we an both agree that they bring us so much joy, and again, energy from their presence alone. That's my answer. Mark Wood: That's great. Patty Vest: Let's transition a bit to your years at Pomona. Ezequiel Estrada: The tea. Danny Ta: Year. Ezequiel Estrada: Year. Years. Danny Ta: Years and year. Patty Vest: So, Danny, tell us about your year at Pomona and, Ezequiel, if you want to tell us a little bit about your Pomona experience. Danny Ta: It's definitely interesting going to Pomona, because you start to have expectations because you're a PAYS scholar, so you know that everything that's going to happen, you have some knowledge of. So, basically, you carry that with you, and you expect things to be not exactly like how it was when you were in PAYS, but you're expect it to be somewhat similar. So, yeah. That's why, at least, I expected it to be somewhat similar to when I was in PAYS. Danny Ta: A few things were similar, but definitely a few things were different, such as ... So, culture shocks, something, just in general, being in a class with many students that know much more material than I have, have much more background in the course subject than I have, so that was something that was definitely a shock to me because, in my high school ... I would say for my math class, my first math class, in general, many of those students understood the material really quick. A lot of them have been exposed to it before, whereas I was not. So, that was a challenge to me, but I got through it. Danny Ta: In general, my first year, definitely first semester, was definitely harder than second semester. Second semester, I started understanding that I had many resources there, many people that I could look up to, and ask for help. Therefore, I started adjusting myself, and I was definitely adjusted with academics, in terms of social life, and that helped me a lot. I definitely grew a lot during my first year of college. Just understanding how I was going to manage the rest of the three years using the lessons that I've gained throughout my struggles in the first year. Ezequiel Estrada: [inaudible 00:40:56] been an experience. Patty Vest: Tell us about that. Mark Wood: Go off. Ezequiel Estrada: I don't even know where to start. Go off? It's very hard to ... I don't know, very ... I don't know, three years of my life, but it's also been a lot of changes and growth in three years. And I don't ever ... I guess, I mean, I know I've changed, definitely, since I came, but I guess the extent to which I've grown, or the magnitude of that growth, I don't realize until we talk about it, and I think about, literally, where I was on moving day, and where I am now. Ezequiel Estrada: Even right now, my ability to talk about my experiences, using certain words, or ... I feel like that's not something I would have been able to do my first semester at Pomona. So, I guess Pomona has been a journey of ... I guess, PAYS, in a way, planted seeds that were later came to fruition at Pomona, and that necessarily doesn't even have to be on the academic side. It's just a lot more on ideas of intersectionality, or identity, or things related to social justice that I really came to understand, once I was here. Ezequiel Estrada: Pomona has been a lot of navigating academic spaces, while also navigating this aspect of my life, which was introduced to me while I was in PAYS. It has not been easy, I guess, to say ... just to briefly summarize that, but I think at Pomona ... I don't think this is specifically to the school, but the people here, there's a lot of community healing, and going through experiences together, and going through the experience of Pomona together. I saw someone post, when commencement happened this year, after it had ended, or after commencement happened, someone posted something on Facebook and was like, "Pay attention to the people that get the most applause when they walk the stage. And when you think about that, think about who was expected to graduate, and who had to take a semester off, or who had to switch majors, or who really went through a difficult time here." Ezequiel Estrada: So, that applause is not only ... It's from a whole community of people that are rooting for each other to graduate from this elite institution. Elite is in quotes. But yeah, I don't know. I guess that gives off ... I guess what I said, it kind of explains how I feel about Pomona. Mark Wood: That's great. Patty Vest: That's good. Mark Wood: Well, we were talking a little earlier, before we started, about majors. Tell us about your major. Have you chosen one yet, Danny, and I know that you, Ezequiel, it's a little more complicated. You're in a process. And, tell us about your academic interests and where you want to ... what you're doing with your major. Danny Ta: I'm intending on majoring in math. I have not officially declared yet, but I plan to do so soon. I definitely have always had a soft spot for math, through elementary school and middle school, and then high school, and then PAYS definitely helped me realize that I really liked math. Through my last summer, I had a [inaudible 00:44:27] math course, I was really interested in the topics that were discussed about, because they were ... the concepts of math were more abstract than what I had been exposed to in high school, so that just opened doors to me, personally. Danny Ta: And it had me realize that there's lots of options in the math field, and I can do anything if I studied math. And also, I mentioned, teaching my elective earlier, soccer ... mathematics and soccer. So, I've always loved sports. Soccer's my favorite sport, and so I've always thought about how I can still be involved with soccer, but obviously not playing, because I'm not that good, through mathematics, so I've always thought about being a sports analyst, or a data scientist, or statistician, in terms of sports. Sports analysis. So, that's where I really started liking math, and that's where I see myself in the future. Ezequiel Estrada: I started off with math, and was math for three years, and very much went through all the classes, and did math research last summer, and then I guess I recently made the switch, most likely, to Chicano Latino studies. And I don't think ... When I decided to switch, I was like, "Oh, I don't like math," just because of my experiences in math at Pomona, and then while I was doing research. It just always felt like a marginalizing space, and a space where it was difficult to find support in. And then, I guess, I put ... when I started Pomona, I knew my interests where math, sociology, and then I guess I didn't really know what Chicano Latino studies were, but I knew I was very much still interested in soc, because of the critical inquiry component during PAYS. Ezequiel Estrada: But I feel like it was just very easy for me to fall into math, so that I never really gave anything else a chance. Or, the things I did give a chance, for example, cog sci, cognitive science, that didn't really speak to me. Or computer science. And so, I guess, I had a conversation with Gilda Ochoa at some point during the year, and I was deciding if I was going to switch or not, and then I was talking about either going into sociology, or Chicano Latino studies, and then I was leaning more toward sociology, and then she said something like, "Think about your senior year. What would make you feel most grounded or centered." And I feel like, right now in my life, that's what's most needed for myself. Most important to me. And so, I feel like I could find that, hopefully, with CLS. Ezequiel Estrada: But then, doing math this summer, again with PAYS, I realized I do like math. I don't hate it. It's just my experiences in math have made it difficult for me to be in those spaces, because, like Danny was saying, the math became more abstract senior year. One of the things we do was the division algorithm, which is literally just division. But, it's presented in a way ... It's like N equals QM plus R. Blah. Blah. Blah. It's, literally, just eight divided by four is two, but made really complicated. But, that is very interesting to me, but I don't see myself being able to do that in an environment at Pomona, or just in general, math can still be very marginalizing. So, that's kind of why I switched to CLS. Patty Vest: Tell us about some of your interests outside of academics. Are you involved in any groups, or what are some of the activities you do as a Pomona student? Danny Ta: Definitely, a big part of my first year at Pomona was writing for The Student Life, Claremont College's newspaper, so I was part of the sport section, and I just wrote about soccer, so I follow soccer all the time. I wrote about professional soccer, just big events that were going on, and I had a great time doing that, because I already read up on soccer on the daily, just for fun, so it was just nice to write about it. I've always wanted to do journalism in high school, but I never got a chance to just because I was in other stuff. Danny Ta: But, I took a chance in college, and I tried to be more open about different activities, and so I tried writing, and I really enjoyed it. A lot of people have ... A lot of my friends that are also into soccer told me that they looked forward to reading about soccer in the newspaper, because a lot of the other stuff that's talked about is usually baseball, or football, or basketball, so it was definitely an awesome exchange between us, just to understand that there's people that read that and really enjoy it. It made me very happy. Patty Vest: What's the name of your column? Danny Ta: My column was called ... My last name is Ta, so it's called Ta's Timeout. Patty Vest: Very nice. Ezequiel Estrada: The alliteration. Danny Ta: The alliteration. Yeah. You already know. Ezequiel Estrada: I don't know if it was mentioned, but PAYS is ran through the Draper Center for Community Partnerships, which is basically Pomona's volunteer center. Mark Wood: Thank you for adding that. That is an important point. Patty Vest: Thank you. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. So, my first semester, I guess I was already exposed to Draper, so I went. I knew I wanted to do something, so I would volunteer for Next Level, which is a college access program for high school students at Fremont Academy, which is in the city of Pomona. And so I would go there every week, every Friday. So now, since sophomore year, I've been Next Level coordinator, which is a work study job. So, that's one of the things I do. Ezequiel Estrada: Pomona has a FLI ... I guess, a Quest Chapter, and it's now named FLI, which is First generation and/or low-income students. So, sometimes they host different events, which I try to go to. And then I guess, just in general, during my time at Pomona, I was a sponsor my sophomore year. Sponsors are basically like mentorship positions, that usually sophomores do, and you kind of get ... So, it's you and your cosponsor, and you live in the same hall as a bunch of incoming first-years, and you kind of help them to transition to college. So that was an interesting experience. Danny Ta: And also, participate in the Vietnamese Student Association on campus. My family's Vietnamese, so it was really nice to connect with others from my same ethnicity. We meet at Oldenborg every Monday or Tuesday, it depends on the semester, and then we just speak in Vietnamese and then just have a meal with each other. It's nice to get to know everyone, and on Thursdays we have our ... It's like a club, so we have a club dinner, that's just a way to catch up, and just enjoy our time together, and embrace our backgrounds. Ezequiel Estrada: Is that just Pomona, or the other ... Danny Ta: All the Claremont colleges. Yeah. Mark Wood: So, at this point in your Pomona careers, your very different levels of Pomona careers, what are you thinking about doing after you graduate. I'm sorry to tell you, you will have to graduate. They won't let you stay here forever. Ezequiel Estrada: [crosstalk 00:52:09] I'm ready to leave, though. Mark Wood: Yup. So, what are you thinking about doing after? Ezequiel Estrada: I'm not sure. For the longest time, I have not been sure what I wanted to do. I know what I don't want to do. I know ... Patty Vest: Which is almost as important. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Exactly. Mark Wood: Yeah. That is an important part of the process. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah, because when I was a math major, I wasn't sure if I wanted to go to math grad school, or go into consulting or something like that, and now I know I don't want to do that, so that's also the reason why I switched math. If I wasn't going to use the major for anything post-Pomona, why am I going to go through the difficulty of me being there? Ezequiel Estrada: But ... I don't know. I feel like, yeah, I really don't know right now. I think maybe something related to education policy, or ... I don't know. I feel like it's going to go back to PAYS somehow, because I learned at PAYS. Mark Wood: Yeah. Ezequiel Estrada: Yeah. Patty Vest: Any ideas, Danny? Or what were you interested in ... Yeah. Mark Wood: You're a long way off, Danny. Danny Ta: Definitely been thinking about graduate school, but that's a conversation that many students are having at Pomona. Either graduate school, or just maybe if not, I would like to try to do some research along the way, during throughout my career here at Pomona College, just to see what I can do with mathematics. Definitely want to explore my options a lot. Maybe ... So, I took a computer science course this past semester, and I was really interested in that as well, so I was hoping to do more of that, just to see how I can combine soccer with mathematics and computer science to see where that leads me. Patty Vest: That's great. And where can our listeners find more information about PAYS, or how can people get more information about PAYS? Ezequiel Estrada: You can look up Pomona College PAYS, and then there's [inaudible 00:54:09] for some link on the Draper Center page, and there's a lot of info there, like when the application season will open, what PAYS is about, and also for alumni of the program, there's also a section where you can put in your information to have some sort of connection still to PAYS, because PAYS has been around ... This is like the 15th, 16th summer? Danny Ta: Something like that. It's been around for a while. Yeah. Mark Wood: Okay, on that note, we're going to wrap this up. Our thanks to Pomona College students, and PAYS teaching assistants, Danny Ta and Ezequiel Estrada. Patty Vest: And to all who have stuck with us this far, thanks for listening to Sagecast, the podcast of Pomona College. Until next time.